You're just writing these things to make me want to play the game even *more*. The mechanics that I used to play TLJ didn't make the game fun and interesting, it was the character of the story and the cast that made it so enjoyable. You keep that and as long as the gameplay isn't debilitating I'll love it.

-t
 

I have an interesting question: You write this journal in English, but I was wondering if you write the dialog for the game(s) in Norwegian since that is your native language. Is it easier to write the dialog in the particular language you chose to write it?
 

Congratulations. I'm glad Dreamfall isn't going to built around conventions and that it's designed to suit the story. The dialouge in the first game was great for the most part. Some of it was overly long but there were only two parts that were too long. (April learning the stories in the village as well as that horrible backwards talking guy.)
 

Futuristic thriller. Mmm, yes, sounds good.
 

Pretty much described an action adventure to me. Stealth, Combat, Dialogue, and Puzzles describes BS3 BG&E, and other action adventures. Combat and stealth in BG&E were poor, and in BS3 they were awful.

I haven't seen anything from the Dreamfall's combat to suggest it will be good. There are few games that do stealth well.

"After all, why should games be categorised solely by mechanics, and not by story or emotion? And why shouldn't games be allowed the freedom and diversity of novels, films, and television, where conventions are often thrown to the wind, mixed together, reinvented?"

Movies and TV are classed the same, you have classifications example, "Short", "Silent", "Animated" and "B&W". Then, like games, you have Horror, Sci-Fi, Thriller, Western, Wars.

The gameplay is just as important as the story, just like how the movie is shot is just as important to its story.

I do agree that the gameplay mechanices can be mixed, or new ones can be created. Exactly the same with the story.
 

I'm in complete agreement that genre conventions can hold back interactive storytelling. In fact, I'd like to know more about hod Dreamfall works in terms of design - are you working around a storyboarded concept, taking it from beginning to end, around a mapped-out narrative? If so, that sound interesting - if anything Dreamfall should be a good experiment. As a storyboard artist it's also good news for me. ;-D

At JA+ we're having big discussions about 3D and Dreamfalls place within the adventure genre. There's no getting away from the fact that the game started off in that genre in terms of marketing, nor that the original was very much part of it. There are concerns being voiced about the success of creating a game which is more of a halfway house between two genres, and the merits of 3D within the adventure ouvre. Personally, I just want a good game, but some fans believe they're being alienated - considering that Dreamfall is a continuation of a non-action based series, I can understand, but the game is being pressed as having non-violent solutions, so I can't!

I also labour the point that the puzzles WERE complained about a lot even within the community - that TLJ WAS about narrative and dialogue first and foremost. Not wanting to tread on too many toes - ah, who cares... sorry to say this but many of the puzzles were not that good anyway. That gameplay in other areas is also being looked at interests me, as does freeform gameplay - something that we know developers and public alike are interested in, from the success of crossover titles like Morrowind to the freeroaming GTA.

One thing that does excite me, however simple, is the puzzle element. Does it include physics? How are the puzzles going to work in 3D, how are they being tackled? It would be a shame to not test new things out, and the words so far published convince me that you are attempting new things in that area. If it's possible to give vague examples that'd be interesting reading. My only worry is that they'll be Tomb Raider-esque. If you were to write a line in this blog that convinces me that's not what you're going for, I'll be very pleased.

Nice comment about overlong dialogue, btw. Good to see a developer recognise the weakness in their own games. ;-)

B Bowen AKA SquarejawHero, JA+
 

there is no such thing as 'too much dialogue'.

Xenon (from the Divide)
 

I agree with you Xenon. The long dialogues in TLJ was not a weakness, but a strenght.

I want much dialogue in Dreamfall.
 

Except for that backwards talking guy... Abnoxious or something...
 

The PC games market has been shrinking for 5 years. This is why most PC games now have a little of everything, like Dreamfall. The problem with this is that nobody gets what they want. We all have to compromise. That does not engender loyalty and does not help PC games with market penetration. (Ie, in the UK there are over 12 million home PC's, most No.1 games sell less than 250,000 copies.)

Leading up to the release of TLJ in 2000 the market was different - and much bigger. You got specific shooters (Doom), you got specific arcade games (R-Type), you got specific adventures (Kings Quest) and you got specific puzzle games (Tetris). in amongst these you had the odd title that mixed genres. (There was a couple of arcade scenes in Sam and Max, an adventure game, for example).

The PC games market now is mostly "generic". In order to sell enough copies (it is perceived) and get a return on your investment as a developer, you have to be all things to all people.

Dreamfall will be a generic action/adventure/strategy/RPG/sneak'em up with your generic Fighter/Magician/Swordsman. It has to be, because all games have to be. That's what publishers/developers think.

I believe their wrong. I think there are swathes of people (TLJ owners for one) that would love to have choices of just adventure games (ie with no killing or monsters jumping out at you), or just crazy shoot 'em ups, or 2D arcade games. It's just that nobody feels they can take the risk anymore.

If Funcom produced a follow up that was still an adventure; a story, characters and puzzles, with no shooting or jumping or arcade, and kept April as the main character, and had promoted it not in Computer Game Daily/Weekly/Monthly, etc, but in bookstores and the NY Times and Time Magazine and local newspapers. And assuming it had the story and character quality of TLJ, tell me why it wouldn't sell to every single TLJ owner (350,000 or so)and not get the same word of mouth, the same web coverage, etc? It would not need the computer gaming press that would give it 65% because it was "just" an adventure. If it got a good write up in newspapers and was distributed through book wholesalers as well as software distributors I do not see why it could not be a huge hit.

But investors won't take the gamble, developers and publishers don't have the imagination, and so we get these generic games, all things to all people, a jack of all trades but master of none.

...And the PC games market continues to decline.

It's a sad sad, bad bad gaming world we weave.....
 

"Master of None" is exactly right. No one seems to have the guts to make an adventure game in this day and age even though the market is absolutely starved for them. Not even Ragnar who must, somewhere deep down, really love and cherish this genre. I'm not sure exactly which corporate slime ball convinced him to sell us this "new" idea, but do not bite. We've all heard the words adventure mutate into adventure-action into thriller. Remember, we have not seen Ragnar actually try to invent. TLJ was a tribute to the adventure game genre. A monument to the glorious Lucas and Sierra adventures. He was relying on conventions, not inventions.

Hybrid genres are only very occasionally successful. I can only think of one very strong genre hybrid. (Star Control II) Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that Ragnar has the background or inventiveness of a Fred Ford or Paul Reiche III. That kind of vision is one in a million.

I do not agree that the genre has nothing to do with the ability to tell a good story and history has proven me right time and time again. Adventure games allow for a slower pacing, character development, and actual plot points. Do you guys really think that Full Throttle would have been nearly as effective as an action game? Hell no. In an action game there is no time to get to know the backstory or personality of your characters. Can anyone guess why Full Throttle 2 was scrapped?

This game is most likely leading us down the road to heartbreak. What do we know about it so far? Well, from the screenshots, we know the visuals are not going to be up-to-snuff. (may not even look as good as the first game) We know that the guy in charge of the audio is "new". We know the game will be short and contain much less dialog than the first one. And we know that the game is being marketed in such a way that it will attempt to attract an audience that is much larger than the TLJ fan base without alienating that fan base. Have we actually heard any news about this game that someone would consider positive?

-Jim
 

... except the fact that *it is being made* and that Ragnar cares about it like it was his own baby?

I for one welcome innovation (even if some people will say it's not innovative) in gaming style and genre. There has to be some experimentation. Face it, the gaming world is a different place than five years ago. And games of Dreamfall's proportions *have* to sell. TLJ was small fry compared to it, (even though I'm sure it would have dented the then FunCom bottom line pretty hard if it had failed) and FunCom (and investors) have to market and present it accordingly. If they fail, they fail. If they do, it won't be because of me badmouthing it before release, at least...

toremygg of the Divide
 

1. Being original doesn't mean doing a straight sequel to a typical adventure game. There was nothing revolutionary about TLJ accept in the story. That is what I call generic.
2. The games listed weren't made near the year 2000. Hell some of them are over 10 years old. Deus Ex, Shock 2, and NOLF were released closer to TLJ, and they were all genre mixing games.

"action/adventure/strategy/RPG/sneak'em"
name me one. It's called stealth btw. BG&E was a mixture of three of those, but the stealth portion was small.
"Fighter/Magician/Swordsman"
Atleast get the classes right. Chemical Engineer/Artisan/Assassin. Many a game has seen that combination. /sarcasm

"Hybrid genres are only very occasionally successful. I can only think of one very strong genre hybrid."
I have listed three. I believe BG&E wasn't successful because of marketing, at the same time ubisoft failed Sands of time aswell.

"Well, from the screenshots, we know the visuals are not going to be up-to-snuff. (may not even look as good as the first game)"
No adventure game has better graphics. Saying that they may not look as good as the first game is ridiculas.

"We know that the guy in charge of the audio is "new"."
So you can't judge him.

"Have we actually heard any news about this game that someone would consider positive?"
1. The graphics are better than any adventure game.
2. Ragnar is writing the story.
3. The game has freedom in choice.
4. They aren't going to be doing any obscure puzzles.

After that how much do you know and how much are you guessing?
 

The only people being positive about Dreamfall are people with a vested interested, FunCom themselves of course, anyone from their official website, anyone from the main unnoffical website and anyone whose job relies on there being a strong pc games market so say everything is brilliant until they actually review it.

Dues Ex 2 is a good example of that. And why is it FPS or Action fans can have these debates ad neaseum before a game comes out (it better come with an editor, it better have 3rd person as well as first person, it better have a shotgun as one of the weapons, and on and on and on...) but adventure fans are just fobbed off when they try to debate?

The fact that Dreamfall is also being written for consoles and that FunCom has had a $3.5 million infusion from an investment group doesn't neccesarily tell what the game will be, but it tells me what it won't be. It will not be a stand out product that gets special press or retail attention and that makes it a game that is not on my rader like it otherwise would be.

Now I am a TLJ fan, so what does that mean for regular gamers?

If it had been anyone other than someone from Divide.com I may have paid attention more. But you guys are as blinkered for this game as the mainstream gaming press seem to be for ignoring it, or those people that slag of adventure gamers as being "loonies".

Anyone close to Dreamfall should be more critical, not less, because they have an ear. If all you do is sit back and say "whatever you do, I am sure it will be great" then you are part of the problem not part of the solution.
 

I know one thing that would make me a happy camper. Have a built-in god mode so that you can't die if you want to play it like an adventure game with the occasional button-mashing. My stash of games I like is getting smaller and smaller with fewer and fewer adventure games being produced. So, I find an 'adventure' game (as the industry seems to consider 'adventure' combat-oriented rather than what used to be 'adventure') and stick on a bunch of cheat codes. That way I can enjoy the story and the puzzles without worrying about what I consider the frustration of dying and powering up. To me, that's not fun in a game. That's just annoying, and many games use complicated fighting to artificially inflate the game's length, as far as I'm concerned.

I am mixed on this 'thriller' genre of TLJ. For aforementioned reasons, I don't like fighting to make the game move along. However; all adventure games seem to hit the tedium trap no matter how good they are. It tends to be difficult to create suspense when there's no danger that you will die. I can see how the decision to make Dreamfall this way must be part marketing, and likely (though I'm just guessing here) a way for Ragnar to not be boxed in by the adventure genre. It's difficult to set a game in a time of war and chaos when there's no danger to the player's character's life.

I've been reading Ragnar's journal for a few months now, and I know he loves the game and wants to keep the loyal TLJ fans. But the fans of that great game would not benefit if TLJ 2 was just a graphicked up version of the first one with a new story and no sense of danger that the user could prevent/influence. Because that market, is unfortunately, quite small. If Dreamfall wants to do well, it does need to draw in gamers from other sub-genres. Then all will be sucked in by the great story, and then go back and play TLJ. And demand more pure adventure games be made! Mwahaha.

I'm conflicted. In a way, I'm a 'purist', because I don't like any other games except for pure adventure games and the occasional Legend of Zelda, or other games with codes on. I'm afraid that I'll hit some fighting in Dreamfall and be frustrated with dying and maybe not pick it up again until codes are available to let me cheat. People tell me the Final Fantasy series has some great stories, but I could never get into the gameplay to find out
On the other hand, I understand why the game is going this way, for both economical and storytelling reasons. It's practical on many levels. I just hope this game will still be for me when all is said and done. I trust Ragnar to keep it on the right path, though. I reserve judgement until I'm sitting down and playing it.

I didn't love TLJ for the gameplay or the puzzles. I loved it for the story. In that, I am confident that Dreamfall will live up and surpass the original. Besides, isn't anyone else enamored with the idea of April kicking ass?

One little thing I hope happens again. What really lent excellently to the passage of time was the changing of clothes. I really hope this happens again. I find my suspension of disbelief bubble is always popped when the characters in games wake up the next day wearing what they wore the day before. I loved the fact that April's clothes changed in TLJ.
 

"The only people being positive about Dreamfall are people with a vested interested"
What?
"it better come with an editor, it better have 3rd person as well as first person, it better have a shotgun as one of the weapons, and on and on and on...) but adventure fans are just fobbed off when they try to debate?"
Look at the official bulletin boards, I not only make fun of the adventure loonies but also the brats that demand editors in FPS games. You're as bad as each other as far as I'm concerned.
"The fact that Dreamfall is also being written for consoles"
Console, not consoles. With a different control system and other things that are different between the platforms. Broken Sword was released for a console. What has the platform got to do with the game accept technical issues? What console games are as original or as good?
"It will not be a stand out product that gets special press"
This is already untrue.

Maybe you should pass judgement on what you see, not what you think funcom is planning.
 

Re: Consoles - Ragnar has already said on this site about the lack of long term attention span and the kill everything in sight mentality. That must give you a clue to game direction.

Valve had over 20,000 emails in the first month after they announced the first release date for Half Life 2 - and nobody said "why didn't they just wait until the game come out".

So far, by taking the action route, I would say the threads are 50-50. So potentialy, by extrapolating, there is already over 125,000 potential customers who have been disappoint to some level.

Also there seems to be much more effort trying to attract other genre players than keeping TLJ players on board. TLJ players are being taken a little for granted, in my point of view.

Lastly, already a stand out product with large coverage? Excuse me. Not by a long way.

Let's be blunt. Funcom have not signed to the largest, most well known publisher for Europe and will be handling the rest of the world itself. It will not have a huge advertising spend. That leaves word of mouth. That means predominantly, TLJ players.

A gneric type action - adventure will not have a 5 year life. You will not see it still selling like TLJ did. Indeed while adventure games are seen as a small market I believe there is an underestimation of long term sales. Takes a middle selling FPS, like Devastation. Got into bottom of the Top 20 in Fall 2003. Now, nothing. Now take a game adventure game like Grim Fandango. Also only got into the lower top 20, so was not a hit by any standard. But of course has continued to sell, is still a distributed title on budget, you can still go into a store and buy it, or order it. Try doing that with Devastation. I would lay odds that Grim Fandango's sales surpassed Devastation's sales sometime last year and that Grim will sell another couple thousand units again this year. If TLJ had been an action-adventure it would have been a dead title many many months ago.
 

"So far, by taking the action route, I would say the threads are 50-50. So potentialy, by extrapolating, there is already over 125,000 potential customers who have been disappoint to some level."
Come on, you're extrapolating an estimate of a very small sample.
"TLJ players are being taken a little for granted, in my point of view."
How? Funcom are trying to make the best game possible. All this talk about selling out is bullshit, it's only selling out if you don't like a decision.
"Lastly, already a stand out product with large coverage? Excuse me. Not by a long way."
Don't you read the main game sites? By making a straight adventure it is going to have more coverage? I don't think so.
"I believe there is an underestimation of long term sales."
That is why adventure games are high to come by after a short period of time because production is closed due to lack of sales.
"If TLJ had been an action-adventure it would have been a dead title many many months ago."
TLJ was a dead title many many months ago.

Grim Fandango is one of the best games of all time, Devastation I haven't heard of. One has an average review score of about 9.3, the other about 6.8 out of 10. Bad comparison, Grim suffered because the idea of it was hard to sell to people, and Devastation suffered because it was shite. BG&E is an action-adventure and is a similar situation to Grim. I don't see how this proves that adventure games sell for longer.
 

Okay, find BG&E compared to finding Grim Fandango, and whatever title you choose it's still the same, adventures sell for longer, and I would say even now there is more interest in TLJ than BG&E.

And classic for Grim is exactly the point. Doesn't sell when orignally released but over the years achieved decent sales and is still available. TLJ sold more units in the last two years than it sold in the first two years of release. If it was still marketed and had not gone to budget it could still be selling better than it is. TLJ sold over 100,000 units pretty much on word of mouth. Staying with the adventure theme albeit in 3D in their new Shark engine, would have also garnered alot of word of mouth. That combined with proper marketing and proper release dates worldwide and who knows what you could sell vs having a much more generic short-lived action-adventure.
 

1. BG&E has a larger and more active online community than TLJ. Go to the official forums of each game.

2. Grim Fandango might still be selling but it was not a success, and never will be. I got a figure of 454,813 (adventuregamers.com), this game wasn't released by funcom, it was released by lucas arts.

3.You're going to have to start saying your sources for stats, some of your estimations like "TLJ sold over 100,000 units pretty much on word of mouth" are suspect.

4. How was being a straight adventure going to increase word of mouth? There are adventures being released this year, how is the word of mouth compared to dreamfall?

5. You do realise which games are included in the Action-Adventure genre? They wipe the floor in sales of adventure games. You still haven't said how they are short lived.
 

Look at any other genre, but especially action-adventure, exluding those that are licensed and adventure hangs around and sells by word of mouth more than any other. Adventures of recent times have been released by small companies without an advertising budget. (Funcom didn't have an adverising budget.)

So the reason ANY adventure game is a sucess has got a lot to do with word of mouth. How many times have you read on the web words to the effect "I saw so many great reviews and great things being said in threads I just had to get it (TLJ) - and how great it is." I've seen quotes like this dated 2004 and even 2005 - 6 years after the game came out - people are still finding it!

By the way, why don't you register, give yourself a name. at least I stand behind my beliefs. And I say right now, based on what I know, like for like (ie PC sales) will little more than half of TLJ sales, over any time period you want to give. Even 6 years.

In another 3 months I may change that, higher or lower, but we can only go on what we know so far. Maybe next month a movie will be released that will be crap and you'll change your mind a little bit, or maybe the other way around. But currently I don't have a lot of hope for Dreamfall, I think it will get bad word of mouth like you wouldn't believe from TLJ owners and that word of mouth will keep people away just like the positive word of mouth brings new TLJ owners everyday. More TLJ players are negative than positive on Dreamfall having action puzzles and combat. And fans of other genres are not going to jump on the positive bandwagon, this will be just another action-adventure to them.

But good luck to you all. The Vanguard is definitely in the drivers seat on this. The Sentinel is struggling.
 

Maybe one of the reasons developers are afraid yo make Adventure games is because the "fan" community is going to rubbish anything that isn't 2D point-and-click and, let's face it, it would be kinda boring just programming in the footsteps of Lucasarts et al.

The move to consoles should be one heralded by Adventure gamers as the 3rd Coming. It means more Adventure titles for you and me, and - hopefully - a little innovation in the field.

Like many of you I tired of twitch gameplay in the early 90s, and only returned to non-Adventure gameplay in the last few months. I can tell you, it's a Brave New World out there today. Go on, take the first step into a much larger world. Support innovation, or else we'll have another Syberia.
 

Hmm, I'm not sure I approve of "thriller". I'm halfway through Moment of Silence at the moment, and loving every minute -- but almost put it back on the shelf because it said "espionage thriller" on the back.

And, to be fair, the plot of MoS does seem fit that description. But I'm not playing for the plot, I'm playing for the gameplay -- so far as I'm concerned, if I'm interested in the world and the characters (which basically involves getting involved in the game) it doesn't matter if it's a soppy love story or some bloke with a big sword and a bad attitude.

Maybe one day, when there are as many games as films, I'll be able to be more picky. But for now, the roots of the game seem to give the best available clue as to whether I'll actually enjoy it!

Maybe I'm just getting old. I hope you'll at least use some sort of code-word in the advertising so people like me don't ignore it! You could try "adventure", "weeks of dialog", "we are quite into characters and the three on the cover aren't just there to have different weapons", even "warning: may contain puzzles" ...